Friday, March 15, 2013

Demeter Auran: Recipe (Round Two)

This past Sunday I decided to go with another round of Demeter Auran.  This time I went with blood orange zest instead of clementine zest, and Mosaic instead of Citra.  I also upped the rose hips just a bit.  Aside from that, I split the 7.5 gallon batch with 5 gallons getting the mixed-ferment saison dreg blend, which was the cake from the original Demeter Auran.  The remaining 2.5 gallons got some white wine-soaked oak cubes and the cake from the portion of the Namur saison experiment that was done with grown up dregs from Tired Hands HandFarm.

I also increased the amount of blood orange zest, as I'm planning on sending the main 5-gallon portion to a keg to age with a good amount of white wine-soaked oak cubes.  I'll probably bottle one gallon of the base just to get a good comparison.

The recipe for the full batch is as follows:

Batch Number: 62
Brew Date: March 10, 2013
Bottle Date:
Batch Size: 7.5 Gallon
OG: 1.050 (est.)
FG: 1.002 (est.)

Fermentation Temperature: Ambient (~65 F)
IBU: 29.2
ABV: 5.8% (est.)
SRM: 3.6

Mash: Single infusion for 60 minutes at 148 F.
Boil: 60 minute


8lb 10oz French Pilsner
3lb 0oz White Wheat Malt
3lb 0oz Flaked Wheat


1.5 oz Mosaic (12.5 AAU) at 20 minutes
1.5 oz Mosaic (12.5 AAU) at flameout


1 Tbsp 5.2 buffer in mash
21 grams of blood orange zest at flameout
6 grams of rose hips at flameout
White-wine soaked medium toast Hungarian oak cubes (amounts below)


Saison Blend (5 gallons; oak cubes contained in the cake of the Demeter Auran batch)
Tired Hands Blend (2.5 gallons; half an ounce of white wine-soaked oak cubes)


03.10.2013: Brewday.  Everything went off without a hitch.  Each portion of the batch got 30 seconds of straight oxygen, with the saison dreg portion getting fermented in a 5-gallon bucket, and the Tired Hands dreg portion going into a 3-gallon Better Bottle.

03.11.2013: Fairly good initial fermentation from the Tired Hands portion after about 24 hours.

03.14.2013: It took the saison dreg portion quite awhile, and I was getting worried, but it's finally going really strong after 3.5 days.  If it wasn't going this morning, I was planning to take a good portion of the krausen of the Tired Hands dreg portion and also a thief or two from Citrine, and just see what happened.

06.02.2013: The saison portion, which was transferred to a keg after primary fermentation before our move, was hit with 1.0oz of boiled oak cubes that had been soaked in Nisia Old Vines Verdejo since 03.30.2013.

10.08.2013: The batch has been with the wine-soaked oak cubes for just over four months.  There was no blow-off assembly in place, so the beer continued to condition in the keg at room temperature, creating plenty of carbonation.  Placed into the kegerator and set at 20 PSI.


  1. How did batch 1 and batch 2 turn out? Mimosa is one of my favorite beers ever and I've been wanting to take a stab at it with hill farmstead dregs for a while now.

  2. Each one turned out quite well. The white wine version that I did was my favorite beer that I've done to date. The HF dregs that I've used have had a nice, light acidity as well as a light citrus (mostly lemon) character. I normally ferment low around 65* F and get really nice attenuation.


  3. Good to hear! I have a bottle each of arthur and brother soigne and am planning on harvesting the dregs to do something similar to this. How many times did you step the dregs up before pitching? I've also heard that some people believe there is a small amount of lacto in HF saisons and not just brett and sach, would you be of that opinion?

  4. Yes, there is definitely lactic in the newer batches of saison, with "newer" being at least the last year or so. I also believe that bottle conditioning is not necessarily done entirely with the saison strain, so it makes sense to keep the temperature low. I don't think I wrote down exactly what I did to step them up, but I believe that I stepped them up by filling a 750mL bottle with the dregs with 1.020 wort and then stepping up to a 2L 1.040 starter from there, and then pitched to a 2.5 gallon batch. The blend has definitely gotten better as I've used it more; I'm guessing the non-sacc has taken over more over time. If you do step up the dregs, I'm curious to hear how it goes!

  5. Awesome. Was considering pitching dregs from a bottle of elaborative #2 as well but may just stick with the saisons since they have some bugs as well. Did the zest come through like you expected it to on those batches?

  6. Yes, the zest did come through, though in my next batch, I think I'm also going to add a bit of juice to see how that turns out. Maybe a cup or so in 5 gallons. I know that Chad at Crooked Stave added juice and zest to his St. Bretta beers, and I really liked those.

  7. I know that shaun added juice along with the zest in mimosa as well so probably a great idea! Thanks again for the responses and the awesome blog!

  8. Sounds great! Also should have mentioned that I made sure to do the secondary for the white wine version under pressure in a keg. Primary was 3 weeks then transferred and put on enough to keep the lid set

  9. Then let the Brett that's presumably in there work under pressure according to advice I've heard from Chad Y. Thanks for the comments!

  10. Interesting. Why under pressure as opposed to in another carboy?

  11. I don't remember the exact reason, but I listened to or read an interview with Chad from Crooked Stave who said that Brett creates the best character under pressure. I believe Gabe Fletcher at Anchorage has said the same thing. I wish I could remember which interview; I'll make sure to post if I find it.

  12. Here is one quote from Chad Y: "I've also noticed that it seems that Brett will spike in activity once some top pressure is placed on it."

  13. Interesting. I'll have to give it a try. Having brewed something similar how do you think this type of recipe would hold up to an OG of 1.079? I want to get as close as I can to mimosa and feel that the abv was a critical factor in the vinous quality of it, but the estimated abv is obviously well out of the range of most strains of lacto. I'm also concerned about the dregs alone being able to handle that intense of a ferment. Any suggestions?

  14. I think it would hold up fairly well, and would probably leave some more for the Brett in the mix to work with. The next time that I do a "barrel-aged" version destined for bottles, I'll probably up things a bit to give the Brett plenty to go along with. For the dregs, I would plan to step them up to the proper pitch level for a 1.079 beer, likely using lager pitching rates as a guide rather than ale. Based on my experience, there's plenty of Sacc. and Brett in those blends. The lacto should be able to get a good start creating a bit of lactic acid before fading out, and then using wine-soaked oak should give a bit more acidity. I'm guessing a lot of it will turn out the wine that you eventually use.

    Cheers, and let me know how it turns out!